That scene with handing out the guns didn't go as it was portrayed in the film. The bank does the standard gun checks and such that go with any gun purchases; you cannot just walk in, open a bank account and walk out with a gun. Moore taped the parts on different days and spliced it together to make it look like he walked in without a gun and walked out with one on the same day.
I gotta say, even with the gun check, this sounds idiotic.
I mean... what does a gun have to do with banking? At all?
That scene with handing out the guns didn't go as it was portrayed in the film. The bank does the standard gun checks and such that go with any gun purchases; you cannot just walk in, open a bank account and walk out with a gun. Moore taped the parts on different days and spliced it together to make it look like he walked in without a gun and walked out with one on the same day.
I gotta say, even with the gun check, this sounds idiotic.
I mean... what does a gun have to do with banking? At all?
Absolutely nothing; don't ask me man, I only hang out here.
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 4,955 Location: New York
Re: SPAM « Reply #9678 on Nov 7, 2009, 9:27pm »
At what point does pushing an agenda go beyond the point of no return into sheer lunacy?
The feminist I told you guys about that called me a mysoginist? Now she's practically trying to blame the comic market crash of the nineties on a direct loss of female readership. Because "relationships stayed together in the nineties and after a regime change they didn't". What f***ing nineties did she live through? Because it sure wasn't the one I'm familiar with.
On top of that, she seems to be throwing the misogynist and chauvinist terms at several male members on there, simply for having complaints about female characterization in the manga in particular!
WTF is this s***? The failure, she be sinkin' th' ship cap'n!
Micha Admin [ico1(7)]Horror Princess member is offline
So cute!
Joined: Jan 2004 Gender: Female Posts: 52,193 Location: Back to the drawing board
Re: SPAM « Reply #9679 on Nov 7, 2009, 9:31pm »
Oh, pah. Comics have never been the frontier for feminism. Not mainstream ones, anyway.
And speaking of, I penciled 7 pages, but I think I'll take it easier from now on. Don't want to burn out. I'll see if I can get inking, toning, and lettering done tomorrow. ^^
Oh, pah. Comics have never been the frontier for feminism. Not mainstream ones, anyway.
Yet oddly enough they seem to do alright as far as female readership. I saw plenty of women at the comic cons checking out the comic stuff. Quite a few comic fans online are female.
It's an interesting thing to be sure.
But what strikes me as insane is the out and out lying here. Not only is the comics crash well documented to be because of the spectator boom burning out, but she makes it sound like relationships and the like were hunky dory and suddenly changed. Which is a lie, because comic relationships were a MESS in the early nineties and sexploitation was at it's highest with both genders.
I mean, what possesses a person to try and skew facts so blatantly?
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,786 Location: New York
Re: SPAM « Reply #9682 on Nov 7, 2009, 10:24pm »
Its good to get numbers, Debby. Sadly, I can't find current ones.
The last figures I saw were back in 2007. There were part of a market research project around women and comics, and its the figures I continue to consider when I talk about making American comics more open to American womem.
26.4%-27.9% of American comics are purchased by women.
61.3%-62.7% of Manga are purchased by women.
Other facts that I lack the statistics for (I've butchered these documents and folders over the years). I'll see if I can find the original market stuff, I believe it was collected through Diamond, but it was a while ago that me and my friends were collecting this information
- Annual growth of women reading American comics had stalled--there was little growth; more were retained than lost, but not by much.
- Women in general buy less American comics than manga comics than men; most women reading American comics were still buying less comics than manga. Though men were beginning to shift in that, as well, as seen in younger age groups.
- Women in general followed less titles than men from American companies.
- Although manga attracts and retains more female readership, men were more quickly closing that gap than women were with comics, thus there is a more equal gender readership in manga.
- Manga had far more female writers and editors than American comic corporations, and in general women in manga are more equal in voice to men.
I doubt that has changed much at all in three years, but a better study is needed, and I keep hoping to get some stats from Marvel, DC, or Diamond--they haven't been forthcoming, but that may suggest not much has changed.
As for what you see at comic conventions and on the internet--means crap. Comic conventions in general have become more accepted. When I was growing up, I never even knew they existed. In fact, I think many of them were combined together with other nerd activities--like fantasy or sci-fi conventions. Nowadays, comic conventions have become a little more mainstream--even to the point where Comic Con is used by studios and game developers to announce and demo new films and software. Men and women have also become more opened about their geek activities, and geek culture itself is on the rise in the public view thanks to internet culture.
Same with the internet--everyone is more connected today than ever.
Seeing an increase in women at these events or online doesn't mean their market presence has improved.
American comics still have a long way to go. They're better than they were, sure. But they still are perceived as a boys club and a place for male fantasies to come true. Super hero comics especially--I'm sure if we were to extend the figure specifically to that or any one company, the readership percentages for women could drop.
Micha Admin [ico1(7)]Horror Princess member is offline
So cute!
Joined: Jan 2004 Gender: Female Posts: 52,193 Location: Back to the drawing board
Re: SPAM « Reply #9683 on Nov 7, 2009, 10:39pm »
Well, you also have to take in account the indie comics and webcomics (in print even). That's where most American female comic writers and artists get in. There's... well, really not a lot of room in the publishing companies for what girls create.
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,786 Location: New York
Re: SPAM « Reply #9684 on Nov 7, 2009, 11:01pm »
I don't think it considered that, I think it referred mostly to major companies. I don't think it included the indie/doujinshi markets in manga, either. The other thing to consider is the internet, where a lot of people will read fan subs without purchasing, and there's no way to track that.
Either way, manga has come up on top.
But if there's a surge in women working in American comics--chances are its pushed by manga, not comics. A lot of women growing up now will be growing up with manga, and a lot of future female writers will probably refer to those as their early inspirations as opposed to American comics, even if they themselves end up writing in the American comics.
The thing most significant in the study was how the gender within the companies and among writers/artist--it was more equal in manga than comics. I mean, you could probably count every female writer and artist in the big comic companies right now on toes and fingers.
Within manga, however, there's mroe equal division. Women have more of a voice.
Same within the companies themselves--women employed in DC and Marvel in a non-creator/editor capacity were far fewer than those in other forms of media beyond comics, if I recall.
New figures are needed, but i doubt its changed much at all.
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,786 Location: New York
Re: SPAM « Reply #9686 on Nov 8, 2009, 12:28am »
If you consider less than a 1/3 of the readership being female to be alright, yeah I guess that's alright. Somehow I don't think that's much good to the industry, though.
Joined: Jan 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 12,558 Location: Huh
Re: SPAM « Reply #9687 on Nov 8, 2009, 8:34am »
Well, I can understand why.
Power Girl may be a fleshed out character, for example, but the only "flesh" people are paying attention to is the flesh bouncing on her chest. Regardless of how much more she is than fanservice, it's hard to prove that to people reading comics for the first time.
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 4,955 Location: New York
Re: SPAM « Reply #9688 on Nov 8, 2009, 8:40am »
Yeah, it's decent for the comic industry. They've had lower percentages.
Quote:
We may have to reduce the female fanservice in comics, as innocent as it may be.
I don't disagree entirely, but I don't think that's the issue. After all, a lot of manga routinely has fanservice and many of the same manga's are eaten up by women. So I'm not entirely sure it's fanservice that's the problem here.
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