Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,786 Location: New York
Re: The Titans Comic Dump « Reply #1232 on Nov 3, 2009, 8:57am »
Yeah, and I did enjoy the Scarecrow's little bit. Likes like Fear wasn't the only thing that was purged from him over the years. And since Batman is the only thing he fears, it adds a new dimension to him, in that facing against Batman is probably the only thing that can make him feel any emotion at all and break his apathy.
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 4,955 Location: New York
Re: The Titans Comic Dump « Reply #1233 on Nov 3, 2009, 9:25am »
I like the bit with Scarecrow too. It makes sense, really. Something that alters emotions and the like so heavily having a long term effect from overexposure just sounds right. It feels like a natural direction to take said classic Batman rogue. I wonder why no one ever thought of it before Geoff.
It will definitely make future encounters between the two more interesting.
By the way, did you ever get the feeling that Geoff might be looking to take a crack at Batman some time in the future? He seems to like using cameos from the Bats world in Green Lantern and such.
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,786 Location: New York
Re: The Titans Comic Dump « Reply #1234 on Nov 3, 2009, 9:56am »
Yeah, I like Scarecrow, so this new dimension for him is welcomed.
It would not shock me, he's had his hand in so much of DC that the Bat was eventually going to come up. I mean, he's already had some hand in Bat-continuity in other ways--he saved Dick Grayson from death, probably the biggest thing he could have done for the Bat-family. He's having a popular Superman run, and the Green Lantern Corps. has never been so awesome. So I'm sure he's coming up.
You know, thinking about it... does the game Assassin's Creed take a lot of tropes from Azrael? Besides some similarities in design, in AC aren't you also an enforcer-assassin working for a pseudo-religious secret society that believes its actions are protecting the innocent and punishing the wicked?
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 4,955 Location: New York
Re: The Titans Comic Dump « Reply #1235 on Nov 3, 2009, 10:16am »
I hope so. Geoff on the Bat family would be superb. He'd make the perfect follow-up to Morrison. Or hell, assuming Morrison doesn't leave the Bat family - he himself says he's having fun with the mythos and that unless he's kicked off he's probably going to stick with it - imagine the tag team of Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison guiding the Bat family. I think I'd have a heart attack from the awesome.
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You know, thinking about it... does the game Assassin's Creed take a lot of tropes from Azrael? Besides some similarities in design, in AC aren't you also an enforcer-assassin working for a pseudo-religious secret society that believes its actions are protecting the innocent and punishing the wicked?
Actually, yeah, Azrael and Assassins Creed share a lot of similarities. The lone warrior from his order. The warrior eventually turns his back on the order. Pseudo-religions righteousness. In fact, both the Templars and the Assassins guild actually share common elements with the Order of St. Dumas, which is the order that hypnotically programmed Jean to be a killing machine to serve their religious crusades for righteousness and punishing the wicked.
At best, perhaps the character influenced it. At worst, it's an interesting coincidence, to say the least.
Speaking of Assassins Creed, I know some people thought Altair was kind of dry, but I liked him as a character.
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,786 Location: New York
Re: The Titans Comic Dump « Reply #1236 on Nov 3, 2009, 10:48am »
Eh. I guess. I dunno, that game itself was a little weird to me.
Altair did have some development during the game, I agree with that--I felt as a character, he went from being a bastard killing machine who just did what he did because he was good at it, to a true believer in righteousness and justice and who understood the truth of his vows, and yet one who also came to recognize the hypocrisy of the people he served and was willing to take them down, not just out of vengeance for being his master's pawn, but because it was right.
I though especially it was significant that your fellow assassin from the beginning intro--the one who rats you out for breaking your code--ends up respecting you and fighting beside you as you went after your master. Showed that Altair also changed in the eyes of his peers as well as the gamer.
Again, I get inklings of Azrael in all of it. It could have been a coincidence--much of the game itself was based on historical fact and historical conspiracy theory--Altair's Assassins were based on an actual existing secret society that had the same code, and one of its leaders had actually been quotes as saying: "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." So Altair's character and Azrael's character are in and of themselves almost natural extensions of the story.
Review of the rest of the game, however, within:
[spoiler]I mean, it had a lot of cool platforming aspects, but I felt you did mostly the same thing in every city with a rather slow and gradual new elements being introduced (like archers on roofs), but nothing significant by the end of it. All that intel you gather that gives you unique approaches, but few if any were necessary to completing the assassination or making your escape (most the time I found a way of doing it on my own, and escaping never gave me much of an issue). I mean... enter city, climb atop viewpoints, save citizens, pickpocket, listen in on conversations, etc. pretty much every city. The formula became glaringly obvious by the second city, and that took a lot of gusto out of the game.
I think the game could have benefited more from having assassinations opened a little more (give the NPC's more routines to follow, have a night/day progression so we can try and get them at night), make us have to move between multiple cities for various intel or leads, and having other secondary objectives--sabotaging weapon caches, stealing treasures, killing minor underlings and bosses, etc.
My final verdict on Assassin's Creed--it was a good start, but it wasn't much more than a start. Even the plot sort of just ends right at the climax--pretty literally, you're left trapped in your prison room while the bad guys go off to do their thing. Sure, Altair himself sort of achieves his own objective, but even there you see the orb open, you see the map of various locations, and... well whatever happened to Altair and the Assassin's Society after all the leadership was wiped out?
The sequel bait was a little too much, I felt like for all the time the game took, it just ended in the middle of everything. Not that every loose end had to be tied up, but maybe ending with Desmond escaping his captivity or something... and before you say that spoils the sequel, in the sequel Desmond has escaped captivity already with a fellow Assassin, and you work with the Assassins, who use their own version of the animus device.[/spoiler]
Good game, but needed more to it than what we got. I'm hoping they learned from that in AC2, and that AC2 gives us more variety, not just in the gadgets and weapons we may use, but in terms of missions and objectives to accomplish.
I though especially it was significant that your fellow assassin from the beginning intro--the one who rats you out for breaking your code--ends up respecting you and fighting beside you as you went after your master. Showed that Altair also changed in the eyes of his peers as well as the gamer.
That's another thing that reminded me of Azrael. At the start of his solo, he was broken; he'd failed as Batman and the Bat family in general didn't like him. But he looked to prove himself to Batman and the rest of them. Prove he could change and not just be a product of what St. Dumas wanted him to be.
Here's some scans from the Azrael ongoing to give some context and just to post some scans.
An acceptance he eventually got as he became a member of the Bat family proper.
From a Christmas issue during No Mans Land:
Azrael is framed and worries that all the acceptance he's worked for will be gone.
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,786 Location: New York
Re: The Titans Comic Dump « Reply #1239 on Nov 6, 2009, 9:26am »
It would not shock me, personally. Marvel has been shaky for a while now. In particular, their event books have been critically panned more than DC's lately. I mean, looking just at the top ten books, Blackest Night dominates the list--three total, though five if you include the Green Lantern Books since of course the story is central there right now (41 was the prelude to Blackest Night, and 47 is part of the event).
So despite some internet critics and disgruntled fans, Blackest Night seems to have been a success thus far.
I think its also because of the shift in general audience's tastes--fantasy, the supernatural, and sci-fi are becoming popular lately, thanks to shows like Ghost Hunters and Battlestar Galactica, and films like Harry Potter and Twilight.
In general, I think DC does a better job of doing that, or at least its perceived that DC has more of an idealized universe whereas Marvel incorporates more real-world conflict into theirs.
DC also has people like Johns and Morrison who do go all out with the fantastic and the imaginary.
But people are looking for escapism right now, and believing a man can fly and that a Dark Knight is watching over them is what people seem to want right now.
So maybe this is good news for DC.
EDIT:
I also feel that Marvel is still feeling fallout over One More Day, because I'm seeing some resurgence of criticism surrounding it, as well as other recent moments. Those fans are vocal. They've also been reinforced with things like Chameleon sleeping with Parker's flatmate (which was, well, rape), and even Peter doing it with Black Cat, which many found a little creepy since Parker knows its Felicia, but Felicia doesn't know Spidey is Parker, yet Parker showed not even a moment of pause that he'd be taking advantage of one of his close friends... I saw a lot people get turned off by that.
While I don't really care, personally (I'm not following Spider-man), I found it hilarious that when Marvel announced Black Cat's appearance coming up, I teased Debby Cakes that Black Cat was going to be nothing more than Spider-man's sex toy.
And... the next cover we get is Felicia in a Spidey shirt straddling diamonds, and then the two of them screwing each other in a supposed moment of passion! So, yay for me! I inadvertently called it!
So, hah! Hah, Debby! I laugh at you, laugh at you and Horny Cat!
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 4,955 Location: New York
Re: The Titans Comic Dump « Reply #1240 on Nov 6, 2009, 11:11am »
Geez, I post Azrael scans and no one seems interested. Ya'll don't understand the awesome of Jean Paul. XP
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I also feel that Marvel is still feeling fallout over One More Day, because I'm seeing some resurgence of criticism surrounding it, as well as other recent moments. Those fans are vocal.
They're also inconsequential. Amazing Spider-Man is doing better than it has in a long, long time. Sales are consistantly damn good, it's the top subscription title and has been for what seems like forever and the trades do very well. Not to mention the series has been getting some critical acclaim; reviews have been damn good or months and months now, with the only dip being the Who is Ben Reilly story, which deals with the minefield that is the Clone Saga. Those folks are a vocal minority these days.
No, I think part of the problem is actually Dark Reign. A lot of people are completely and utterly sick of the mega storyline running through the line. The other part is Bendis. His comics sell consistantly great, but the second folks heard of Siege, the next event he's doing, they groaned so loudly that you could hear it across the world. Folks have been burnt too many times.
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even Peter doing it with Black Cat, which many found a little creepy since Parker knows its Felicia, but Felicia doesn't know Spidey is Parker, yet Parker showed not even a moment of pause that he'd be taking advantage of one of his close friends... I saw a lot people get turned off by that.
Those same people are seeing what they want to see and did not read the storyline. Felicia wanted it that way. She remembers knowing his identity and it causing problems. She missed the excitement behind the mask. Spider-Man was worrying about it, she was perfectly fine with it. There was no "taking advantage of", but some fans so desperately want to hate the current comics - simply because Marvel got rid of a stupid marriage that did nothing but destroy the character for twenty years - that they'll nitpick ANYTHING.
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While I don't really care, personally (I'm not following Spider-man), I found it hilarious that when Marvel announced Black Cat's appearance coming up, I teased Debby Cakes that Black Cat was going to be nothing more than Spider-man's sex toy.
I don't recall disagreeing or thinking that was a bad thing. XD
There was no "taking advantage of", but some fans so desperately want to hate the current comics - simply because Marvel got rid of a stupid marriage that did nothing but destroy the character for twenty years
??
I thought you disliked OMD/BND and getting rid of the marriage?
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,786 Location: New York
Re: The Titans Comic Dump « Reply #1242 on Nov 6, 2009, 11:13pm »
No, he was one of the supporters.
I didn't mind ejecting the marriage, I just though the way they did it--what with Peter making a deal with the devil, you know an incarnation of evil--was slapped together, poorly written, ill-conceived, dumb, and gets worse every time I read it.
Unless you or KT feel otherwise, I don't know if there was anyone who was a Peter/MJ purist who went ape sh*t over it. I admit I was upset that one of the most iconic of comic relationships had been dismantled, but nothing much beyond that.
I never got into Spider-man or developed an emotional attachment to it, so that's why I never raged out about it.
I chalk that mostly up to the Clone Saga--when I was first getting interested into comics, that was going on. Since Spider-man was on TV and I enjoyed, I thought I'd like the comic... instead I was confused and thought the writing and story suck. In fact, I think Maximum Clonage was the first bit of Spider-man I ever read.
Put a bad taste in my mouth, and wasn't really ever interested in Spider-man again.
Actually, it was probably because of Spider-man that I started getting drawn toward DC, so I should thank Spider-man in part for letting me discover the Titans and such.
There was no "taking advantage of", but some fans so desperately want to hate the current comics - simply because Marvel got rid of a stupid marriage that did nothing but destroy the character for twenty years
??
I thought you disliked OMD/BND and getting rid of the marriage?
Pre-BND I wasn't really that big a Spider-Man fan. All I knew is that they were breaking up one of the iconic marriages in the comics. Which didn't sit well with me.
Then I got into Spider-Man comics. Read the stuff before and after the marriage. The stuff after the marriage blew. The supporting cast disappeared - MJ basically BECAME the whole of the supporting cast - the whole thing was awkward and the drama was gone. Then, to inject drama, MJ became a tool about the Spider-Man stuff. It was awful. Seriously, when JMS couldn't even make the damn thing work, you know you have a problem. The marriage needed to go.
Then, it did. BND. All the classic elements back. Supporting cast back. The stories became fun. The writers seemed to actually be enjoying themselves (whereas pre-OMD it seemed more like a chore). I don't think it's a coincidence.
Really, the Venom stories were the best thing to come out of the marriage era and Marvel summarily ran him into the ground. The early Venom stories are also a good view into the descent of the quality of the Spider-Man comics. The Alien Costume saga was pre-marriage. Venom was right after, the second one was later. Then Maximum Carnage, where Mary Jane was at the point where I just wanted her to go the **** away.
So I'm of this mind; the marriage had twenty years and hundreds of comics and no one made it work. At some point, you just wash your hands of it. Spider-Man hasn't been this good in ages, so they made the right call.
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I just though the way they did it--what with Peter making a deal with the devil, you know an incarnation of evil--was slapped together, poorly written, ill-conceived, dumb, and gets worse every time I read it.
One thing I'll admit is that for a coda to the marriage era, OMD really blew. Didn't really celebrate what (little) good there was to it. But I've always looked at it like ripping the band-aid off quick and getting it over with.
Either way, the beauty of it is that the second the retcon happened, it was retconned out of continuity. One of the ongoing mysteries is how everyone in the world forgot Spider-Mans identity - and no, it's not Mephisto anymore - and what it was that broke up Peter and Mary Janes long standing relationship (the marriage never went as planned, but they didn't let it stop them and lived together as though they were). The Mephisto deal technically didn't happen.
Quote:
I never got into Spider-man or developed an emotional attachment to it, so that's why I never raged out about it.
I chalk that mostly up to the Clone Saga--when I was first getting interested into comics, that was going on. Since Spider-man was on TV and I enjoyed, I thought I'd like the comic... instead I was confused and thought the writing and story suck. In fact, I think Maximum Clonage was the first bit of Spider-man I ever read.
Put a bad taste in my mouth, and wasn't really ever interested in Spider-man again.
Give Brand New Day a try in trade. It's a lot more fun than Spider-Mans been in decades. It gets even better as it goes along. The series has been on an absolute roll lately.
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